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25 Responses to “Common New Atheist Fallacies 2 of 4 (with comments)”
please explain to me where the scriptures are not accurate….. and yes there is evidence for the exodus.. like for instance, egyptian wheel wells from chariots found at the bottom of a river crossing where they predicted the jews crossed.. interesting stuff, go look it up… im sorry to say but i feel your just un informed
Well guess what, the scriptures are not accurate, logical or consistent. So Theology fails at every level. Science is about what is measurable and repeatable. Archaeology, for example, is a science. Lo and behold…Archaeologists have found no evidence for, say, the exodus. Theology has never invented a light bulb, a vaccination, a computer, a formula for smelting iron…nothing. It offers nothing but false hope and superstition. It is not a science and a very poor philosophy.
through out history it has been called the mother of the sciences because it takes methodological steps to be sure that what is being presented in scripture is accurate, logical and consistent. It was around long before formal sciences and took much of its reasoning from its methods. if you had studied the field you would understand that as plain as day. Theology has shaped people, societies, companies and commmunities. its impact has been far reaching and for the most part beneficial to mankind
What?! Come off of it. Theology is the study of the nature of god or gods. That’s it. It is not a science, it is barely historical as it tries to make definite claims out of unknown or unproven or outright false events. What absolutes are there? What has theology given to humans that science, reason, trade and government hasn’t? Mother of all sciences…ridiculous. Science is about measuring and testing things, not speculating as to the meaning of alleged burning shrubbery.
thats where your wrong, theology has many absolutes and it changes over time because of good scholarly work that very intelligent men have done on hebrew and greek language, historians, archeology and other newly found ancient writings… please theology is the mother of all sciences, it has theories and then one seeks to prove that theory. it even has methodology. sorry but your wrong, theology is half the reason why you think the way you do today. it has in many ways formed our free society.
No one “knows” theology, its an abstract construct. It contains no absolutes and it changes over time. One has to wonder why the bible is so horribly written that one would need a “degree” in theology in the first place just to understand the thing. Can’t god inspire a better book? Better yet, can’t he write it himself that everyone can understand? Of course not. But theologists have been busy pretending to work by attempting to explain the “mysteries” (contradictions and lies) of the bible.
you prove my point right there.. i went to a non denominational college to get my degree in theology and yes there are many things that the vast majority of sects believe in. like the apostles creed and so on….. tennants of the faith… and although not all things can be known and some things are a mystery, they also cannot be dismissed. there are open and closed hand issues. some things cannot be altered and still be callec christian. other things can… again you dont know theology!
As for “knowing theology”…what theology? There are dozens of Major sects, and thousands of small ones. None of them can agree on concepts like the Trinity, Original Sin, The Literal Truth of Genesis, the Historical vs Mythological Jesus, the proper role of the clergy, handling snakes etc. Each sect thinks itself correct and cites chapter and verse to support their silly notions. Its the ultimate invisible friend popularity contest.
I base my opinions of the bible on the bible itself weighed against common sense, science and reason. It is simply an argument that cannot be silenced. If heaven exists, and babies are innocent then the sins of one killing those babies is minuscule compared to the good deed of populating heaven. Of course many insane people have used this defense after murdering their children, but if the bible is true, the logic is completely sound. Luckily, the bible is demonstrably false.
A good parent prevent’s their child’s death or unnecessary suffering. Not ALL suffering, I would not want to live in a place that was “perfect”. Perfection might get a little dull after a trillion years. As for hell, what could be more immoral than unlimited torture for limited crimes? As it is, there is no evidence for either mythical realm. In any case, if babies are innocent, you might as well start murdering to send them to heaven, you can always repent for your own ticket to the gates.
ok why doesnt God just make us do everything and control everything we do and take away all evil. sounds like your idea of a perect world is f ull of more fantasy then you accuse this one of having…. oh and by the way a place were there is no more pain or suffering is called heaven… might want to make sure your going there cause from what i hear the alternative sucks..
Wow, a murdered rape victim helped out someone else. Oh wait, it was just a rape only,and the person went on to help other people. How does that involve god? if god did the right thing, there would be no rapes OR murders.
As for original sin, the ridiculous notion that “All are guilty” before they are born and that ONLY through the acceptance of a human sacrifice can one be made “clean”, it is central to christian doctrine. The evil god of the bible makes it very clear.
actually i have seen a raped victim go on to help other rape victims in her struggle…. and ya God does help in those cases too…. and who says christian doctrine teaches that children arent innocent? you assume you know for sure, but you have no clue about the attributes of God do you? evil exists i agree, but so does good, and so does absolute truth… if you cant follow that to its logical conclusion then i cant help you.
A raped and murdered child does not emerge “Stronger”. They die. The same with children with terminal illnesses. This is not like someone broke their leg during soccer and later becomes a physical therapist. (God doesn’t help in that case either, btw) We are talking about the needless and fatal suffering of the innocent, though christian doctrine forbids regarding children as being innocent, so in come the aforementioned logic pretzels.
I am referring to the sound scientific method. You cannot compare the god hypothesis to the theory of gravity which – as the name says – is a proven construct. There is no room for a god, it got pushed away more and more over the centuries by science, even abiogenesis is almost researched. If you are satisfied with god being responsible for some missing molecules for RNA reproduction, then go ahead, but from there on simple principles led the way through evolution. Still: Name your evidence!
i dont think science is the be all or end all of logic or reason…… however i agree it plays a large roll, you of all people should realize quite easily with your exstensive training that some things are no in the realm of science but are reasonable and logical non the less….. gravity for instance is not something to be grasped but is easily observed. God is much the same.. I have observed God and his work and yet i cannot grasp a pice of him for you to stick under a microscope.
well thats where i believe your reasoning is wrong, there is plenty of reasonable evidence to suggest that there is a God…. i disagree with the word “probably”… there probably is a God so get learning
You misunderstand the atheist reasoning. No one says with total confidence that there is no god, because that is unscientific.We say that based on the evidence the existence of a deity is higly unlikely. Everything else would be a religious standpoint. Look at the statement of the bus compaign in Britain, they summarized it nicely in a more common phrasing so everyone can understand it: There’s probably no god. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life.
but does reason not also seem to indicate that non belief or the absence of a deity seems highly unreasonable… to say with total confidence that there is no God is a decent from reason… it is not a highly unlikley occurence anymore than a non deity is…. you have biased reasoning… i hope you can see that.
Then you are missing the point of our argumentation,sure we laugh about religious people,since they base their reasoning on nothing but wishful thinking, but the argument for atheism is not ridiculing them,it is saying that our views base on facts and the scientific method and that we do not exlude the possibility of the existence of deity,but it is extremely unlikely.
His views do not shock me,I think they are as polemic as Hitchens sometimes is,he is distracting from the core question.
my point is that this video shows some very rudamentary and basic logical reasoning fallicies on behalf of the atheistic view, and that should be obvious on the part of someone with the training such as yours.. your criticism i believe comes from the fact that you hold a very bitter and biased view…. i myself hold a degree that allowed me to take critical thinking, logic and reason.. argumentation, and philosophy… his views shouldnt be shocking to you
March 1st, 2010 at 6:49 am
Ugh, Hitchens is begging the question and missing the point.
March 1st, 2010 at 6:58 am
please explain to me where the scriptures are not accurate….. and yes there is evidence for the exodus.. like for instance, egyptian wheel wells from chariots found at the bottom of a river crossing where they predicted the jews crossed.. interesting stuff, go look it up… im sorry to say but i feel your just un informed
March 1st, 2010 at 7:39 am
Well guess what, the scriptures are not accurate, logical or consistent. So Theology fails at every level. Science is about what is measurable and repeatable. Archaeology, for example, is a science. Lo and behold…Archaeologists have found no evidence for, say, the exodus. Theology has never invented a light bulb, a vaccination, a computer, a formula for smelting iron…nothing. It offers nothing but false hope and superstition. It is not a science and a very poor philosophy.
March 1st, 2010 at 8:02 am
through out history it has been called the mother of the sciences because it takes methodological steps to be sure that what is being presented in scripture is accurate, logical and consistent. It was around long before formal sciences and took much of its reasoning from its methods. if you had studied the field you would understand that as plain as day. Theology has shaped people, societies, companies and commmunities. its impact has been far reaching and for the most part beneficial to mankind
March 1st, 2010 at 8:53 am
What?! Come off of it. Theology is the study of the nature of god or gods. That’s it. It is not a science, it is barely historical as it tries to make definite claims out of unknown or unproven or outright false events. What absolutes are there? What has theology given to humans that science, reason, trade and government hasn’t? Mother of all sciences…ridiculous. Science is about measuring and testing things, not speculating as to the meaning of alleged burning shrubbery.
March 1st, 2010 at 9:02 am
thats where your wrong, theology has many absolutes and it changes over time because of good scholarly work that very intelligent men have done on hebrew and greek language, historians, archeology and other newly found ancient writings… please theology is the mother of all sciences, it has theories and then one seeks to prove that theory. it even has methodology. sorry but your wrong, theology is half the reason why you think the way you do today. it has in many ways formed our free society.
March 1st, 2010 at 9:22 am
No one “knows” theology, its an abstract construct. It contains no absolutes and it changes over time. One has to wonder why the bible is so horribly written that one would need a “degree” in theology in the first place just to understand the thing. Can’t god inspire a better book? Better yet, can’t he write it himself that everyone can understand? Of course not. But theologists have been busy pretending to work by attempting to explain the “mysteries” (contradictions and lies) of the bible.
March 1st, 2010 at 9:59 am
you prove my point right there.. i went to a non denominational college to get my degree in theology and yes there are many things that the vast majority of sects believe in. like the apostles creed and so on….. tennants of the faith… and although not all things can be known and some things are a mystery, they also cannot be dismissed. there are open and closed hand issues. some things cannot be altered and still be callec christian. other things can… again you dont know theology!
March 1st, 2010 at 10:21 am
As for “knowing theology”…what theology? There are dozens of Major sects, and thousands of small ones. None of them can agree on concepts like the Trinity, Original Sin, The Literal Truth of Genesis, the Historical vs Mythological Jesus, the proper role of the clergy, handling snakes etc. Each sect thinks itself correct and cites chapter and verse to support their silly notions. Its the ultimate invisible friend popularity contest.
March 1st, 2010 at 10:50 am
I base my opinions of the bible on the bible itself weighed against common sense, science and reason. It is simply an argument that cannot be silenced. If heaven exists, and babies are innocent then the sins of one killing those babies is minuscule compared to the good deed of populating heaven. Of course many insane people have used this defense after murdering their children, but if the bible is true, the logic is completely sound. Luckily, the bible is demonstrably false.
March 1st, 2010 at 11:45 am
wow you realy dont know your theology do you…. if this is what your basing your bias on then i can see why your upset or rebelling….
March 1st, 2010 at 12:04 pm
A good parent prevent’s their child’s death or unnecessary suffering. Not ALL suffering, I would not want to live in a place that was “perfect”. Perfection might get a little dull after a trillion years. As for hell, what could be more immoral than unlimited torture for limited crimes? As it is, there is no evidence for either mythical realm. In any case, if babies are innocent, you might as well start murdering to send them to heaven, you can always repent for your own ticket to the gates.
March 1st, 2010 at 12:35 pm
ok why doesnt God just make us do everything and control everything we do and take away all evil. sounds like your idea of a perect world is f ull of more fantasy then you accuse this one of having…. oh and by the way a place were there is no more pain or suffering is called heaven… might want to make sure your going there cause from what i hear the alternative sucks..
March 1st, 2010 at 1:12 pm
Wow, a murdered rape victim helped out someone else. Oh wait, it was just a rape only,and the person went on to help other people. How does that involve god? if god did the right thing, there would be no rapes OR murders.
As for original sin, the ridiculous notion that “All are guilty” before they are born and that ONLY through the acceptance of a human sacrifice can one be made “clean”, it is central to christian doctrine. The evil god of the bible makes it very clear.
March 1st, 2010 at 2:01 pm
actually i have seen a raped victim go on to help other rape victims in her struggle…. and ya God does help in those cases too…. and who says christian doctrine teaches that children arent innocent? you assume you know for sure, but you have no clue about the attributes of God do you? evil exists i agree, but so does good, and so does absolute truth… if you cant follow that to its logical conclusion then i cant help you.
March 1st, 2010 at 2:29 pm
A raped and murdered child does not emerge “Stronger”. They die. The same with children with terminal illnesses. This is not like someone broke their leg during soccer and later becomes a physical therapist. (God doesn’t help in that case either, btw) We are talking about the needless and fatal suffering of the innocent, though christian doctrine forbids regarding children as being innocent, so in come the aforementioned logic pretzels.
March 1st, 2010 at 2:41 pm
I am referring to the sound scientific method. You cannot compare the god hypothesis to the theory of gravity which – as the name says – is a proven construct. There is no room for a god, it got pushed away more and more over the centuries by science, even abiogenesis is almost researched. If you are satisfied with god being responsible for some missing molecules for RNA reproduction, then go ahead, but from there on simple principles led the way through evolution. Still: Name your evidence!
March 1st, 2010 at 3:24 pm
i dont think science is the be all or end all of logic or reason…… however i agree it plays a large roll, you of all people should realize quite easily with your exstensive training that some things are no in the realm of science but are reasonable and logical non the less….. gravity for instance is not something to be grasped but is easily observed. God is much the same.. I have observed God and his work and yet i cannot grasp a pice of him for you to stick under a microscope.
March 1st, 2010 at 3:29 pm
Name one shred of evidence that withstands science.
March 1st, 2010 at 4:28 pm
well thats where i believe your reasoning is wrong, there is plenty of reasonable evidence to suggest that there is a God…. i disagree with the word “probably”… there probably is a God so get learning
March 1st, 2010 at 4:30 pm
You misunderstand the atheist reasoning. No one says with total confidence that there is no god, because that is unscientific.We say that based on the evidence the existence of a deity is higly unlikely. Everything else would be a religious standpoint. Look at the statement of the bus compaign in Britain, they summarized it nicely in a more common phrasing so everyone can understand it: There’s probably no god. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life.
March 1st, 2010 at 5:20 pm
but does reason not also seem to indicate that non belief or the absence of a deity seems highly unreasonable… to say with total confidence that there is no God is a decent from reason… it is not a highly unlikley occurence anymore than a non deity is…. you have biased reasoning… i hope you can see that.
March 1st, 2010 at 5:20 pm
Then you are missing the point of our argumentation,sure we laugh about religious people,since they base their reasoning on nothing but wishful thinking, but the argument for atheism is not ridiculing them,it is saying that our views base on facts and the scientific method and that we do not exlude the possibility of the existence of deity,but it is extremely unlikely.
His views do not shock me,I think they are as polemic as Hitchens sometimes is,he is distracting from the core question.
March 1st, 2010 at 6:17 pm
my point is that this video shows some very rudamentary and basic logical reasoning fallicies on behalf of the atheistic view, and that should be obvious on the part of someone with the training such as yours.. your criticism i believe comes from the fact that you hold a very bitter and biased view…. i myself hold a degree that allowed me to take critical thinking, logic and reason.. argumentation, and philosophy… his views shouldnt be shocking to you
March 1st, 2010 at 7:15 pm
E.g. “Logic and the theory of argumentation I and II”, so what is your point?